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I bought the 4 disk CD set at The Door Fellowship Church in Williamsport PA called "Strange Fire". This CD is about their stand against Christian rock music, and Christian Alternative music. I listened to the entire 4 CD's and studied the scriptures that are given, and wrote down some things that they teach, that are of great concern to me. These concerns go much farther than just their disagreements with Christian music.  I discussed these things in great detail, with some bible scholars and theologians from Virginia, as well as putting in my own time studying utilizing my own resources, as well as the bible. Below, highlighted in yellow, are several of the exact quotes given on the strange fire CD, then my comments after that. 

 The "Strange Fire" seminar and CD set was put together by Mike, Mark and Matt Holcomb. They attended Bible School at The School of The Prophets in Rocky Mount Virginia, where their Grandfather Joe Crandall is the President. Mike is the Assistant Pastor at The Door, Mark is the Music Pastor, and Matt is the Youth Pastor.

 

Let me be clear, that my comments are in no way, a slam against The Door Fellowship, or the Pastors, but rather my attempt to point out, in love, that these teachings are incorrect, and can be hurtful  to people that believe this teaching.  I would encourage you, to buy the "Strange Fire" CD to listen to it, and make your own decision. It cost me 10.00. To have a disagreement or dissenting point of view on doctrinal issues such as these, does not make you a rebel, or a bad person. We need to check the scriptures for ourself, because on judgement day, you won't be able to point your finger and say, well he taught me this! No, the bible says to study, to show yourself approved.

The first statement that concerns me, is found on Disk One, Track 11@ 5:47 Matt says, "Let me just say this, the only way that you will receive the love of God, is AFTER you completely repent of your sins, and come into covenant through Jesus Christ. Amen? And, then Gods love keeps you out of sin" This statement, could not be further from the truth of Gods word. If this statement is correct, then John 3:16 is meaningless. John 3:16 says, For God so loved the world, (not so loved those that have completely repented of their sins) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever (not those that have come into covenant with him) believes in him, should not perish, but have eternal life. It goes on to say, that God sent his Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. When the bible says, God so loved the world, it's not talking about God's love for planet earth, and all the planets and creation, it is speaking of us, people, individuals. There are so many scriptures that speak of this in the bible but I will only point out one other. In Romans 5:8 it says, But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Once again, it doesn't say, after we repent of our sins, God will love us. It's very clear.  Also, nowhere in the bible does it say, that after you come into covenant with God, that Gods love will keep you out if sin.

The next statement that they made that concerns me is found on Disk 2 at Track 2 @ 1:50 Mike says, "You don't have to sin. What do you mean, nobody's perfect? Jesus said that you must be perfect"!  2 Corinthians 13: 9 we are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. Then Mike says,  "God would not have told you to be perfect, if you couldn't". Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:  Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke  

The problem with Mike's take on this topic of perfectionism, is he is taking the word "perfect" to be a literal translation of the word.  If you study Gods word, you will see that, the scriptures are not speaking of being perfect here on earth. Obviously for man, that is impossible. In 2 corinthians 9 if you look up the greek translation forthe word perfect means mature. Paul wants us to mature in our walk with Christ. Not literally to be perfect. That is of course impossible. Then, Ephesians 4:13 is speaking of when we receive our glorified bodies, (after we die) and go to heaven, and will be made a perfect man.  The doctrine or belief of perfectionism creates two types of people. 1) An arrogant, prideful person that is so proud of themselves for living such a pure and holy life, and they look down on others that may be struggling with sin. Then they make statements such as this one on this CD that says, "if you are wondering why you are still struggling with sin, it is because you are listening to Christian alternative music".  2) The other type person that this belief produces is a person that is always discouraged with their Christian walk, because they can't possibly live up to those standards of being perfect. Then when they fall, or commit sin, they are discouraged and depressed. What about Romans 7:21  Paul's farewell statement where he says,  When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!  Once again, it is easy to throw out opinion and statements, and take scripture out of context to try to make it be what you want it to be, but that is dangerous ground. You need to carefully study Gods word. This perfectionism teaching is dangerous.
 When i approached Matt on this topic of being perfect we had a lengthy discussion on it. I finished the discussion by asking him, "well, then i have to ask, do you and the pastors here believe that you are perfect?" His response was simply "yes".

The following statement is made on Disk one, at Track 2 @ 2:27  "we're going to show how this type of music, (alternative Christian music, can not be correctly called Christian".  They go on for 4 disks to try to prove their point that Christian music is not of the Lord, but they fail to prove their point. They give a lot of opinion, and state that it causes kids to be rebellious, and so on, but this statement is not proven throughout the CD because it is impossible to prove an opinion. I completely respect their opinion and their dislike for that type of music, but it simply is not evil. Music may have an Objectionable  frequency, or sound that it makes to some, but, that does not correspond to an Objectionable morality. Music is an inanimate object, and does not have the ability to be good or evil. When I look at a band, I look at their fruits and their spirit, are they just in it for themselves or are they in it to minister. I have said this before, and I will say it again. NOT ALL CHRISTIAN ROCK BANDS OR CHRISTIAN ALTERNATIVE ARTISTS ARE GOOD, WITH THAT BEING SAID, NOT ALL PREACHERS  ARE GOOD, NOT ALL YOUTH LEADERS ARE GOOD, AND NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE GOOD. But, you don't throw the baby away with the bath water. If this were the case, if ALL CHRISTIAN ALTERNATIVE MUSICIANS AND ROCK ARTISTS WERE BAD, AS SAID ON THIS CD, THEN, WE HAVE TO ASSUME TOO, BECAUSE SOME PREACHERS ARE BAD, THAT ALL PREACHERS ARE BAD.  I can name several Pastors that have fallen, such as Jimmy Swaggart, and Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker and others that I will not mention out of respect.

Disk one Track 3 @ 10:16 States:  "One of the things that alternative Christian music does is, it takes fire from the world, and tries to make it acceptable to the Lord." This is again, not a fact as you can see, but a statement of opinion. It is their belief that Christian artists are tying to be like the world, to be accepted by the world so they can reach the world. There is a difference in trying to be like the world, and reaching the world at their level. Just try to get some of these kids that are cutters and emo to come to church and sing amazing grace with you. Probably is not going to happen. In 1 Corinthians 9 19-23  Paul says,

Disk one Track 3 @ 10:59 states: "Christian alternative music is music with an agenda." Obvious opinion. The only agenda I have seen with Christian musicians that I have met, and those are numerous, is that they want to minister, and see people get saved, or have a closer walk with the Lord. The music is also produced, so people can  have music to listen to that glorifies God, and doesn't sing about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. The type of sound that it makes doesn't matter. I know a Pastor that likes Mexican polka music. Obviously he doesn't understand the words, because they are in Spanish, and he doesn't speak or understand Spanish, but, many of those songs sing of having sex with women, and getting drunk and partying. He simply likes the sound of it. I know Pastors and elders and people in church that like secular country music, which sings many times of divorce, sex, drinking, partying and so on.

Disk one Track 3 @ 12:00 States:  "all Christian alternative music has the same doctrine or agenda" This is opinion, and goes to my point about throwing out the baby with the bath water. They are stating that everyone, ALL Christian alternative musicians are the same, and all have an agenda. If this were factual, you would have to speak to all of them, interview them, or at the very least, read about all of them which are thousands. Then, you could accurately make this statement, such as I spoke to 15,000 artists, and asked all of them what their agenda is. Overwhelminly, 75% said the same thing, so 75% in fact have the same agenda, and here are the documents and names of people that i interviewed. Until you do that, the statement is in fact, fiction, or an opinion.

Disk one at Track 6 @ 3:11 "Alternative Christian music comes out of a generation that is bored."  Opinion. How do you research this, to make such a statement? The proper way to do it would be to ask say,... 1000 people why they listen to Christian music. If the overwhelming number said, because I am bored, then you could accurately make this statement. It would lend credibility if you had documents of each of the 1000 people you spoke to such as names, dates, locations, and the questions asked with the results acheived. But to throw out the above statement, is once again, opinion, not factual.  

Disc one at Track 7 @ 1:40 States:  "Alternative Christian music produces a young people, who like God, but are not in love with God." This is opinion, and is harsh, judgmental and inaccurate. I personally know hundreds of people, musicians, and people in church etc that listen to Christian alternative music and are in love with the Lord, and that are filled with the Holy Spirit. My wife and I, and boys are 4 of the hundreds that I am talking about. This statement is cruel, and just absolutely incorrect. I know several kids that attend The Door Fellowship, and other churches that are totally in love with the Lord, filled with the Holy Spirit, and listen to Christian Alternative music. They are awesome awesome kids, and I will not be so cruel like this to pass judgement on them, and make a statement like this that says because of the music they listen to, they like the Lord, but are not in love with the Lord.

Disc one Track 11 @ 0:30 States: "The message through Christian alternative music is that Gods love is presented as an emotion rather than a provision."    I have just one question here, what is wrong with being emotional for Jesus?

Disc one Track 11 @ 1:07 States:  "Those involved in Christian alternative music misunderstand, and misrepresent the love of God to the world. They view the love of god more like tolerance, open mindedness. Somehow, God is sorry that they're a sinner. He feels bad, for the mistakes they have made, or making on a daily basis." 

This is opinion. To factually make this statement, you would have to once again, ask people how they view the love of God, and what kind of Christian music do you listen to?  Do you feel God is sorry that people that aren't saved are sinners?  If of the 1000 people you interviewed said, I view the love of God as tolerance and open mindedness, and I listen to Christian alternative music, and I feel that God is sorry that sinners are sinners, then and only then could you accurately make this statement and call it factual. Until then, it is simply opinion.

Disk one Track 11 @ 3:27 Matt states: "Judge not lest ye be judged. Jesus is referring to judging with right judgment. Justice through mercy. Sincere judgment let your judgment be pure judgment."

Matt is talking about how he hates it when he goes up to a person and tells them not to listen to this type of music, then they pull this ace out of the hat. "Don't Judge me Brother, the bible says, Judge not, lest ye be judged". Matt goes on to say how we are to judge people. That Christ was speaking to the Pharisees, and telling them to not be hypocrites, to judge with a righteous judgment, a pure judgment, a sincere judgment. Matt is absolutely right here, but left out 2 very important things. 1) Our judgment needs to be done in love, but more importantly, 2) our judgment needs to line up scripturally. Telling someone not to listen to Christian alternative music, does not line up scripturally. So, the proper way to handle someone that said not to do that, would not be to say, judge not lest ye be judged, or don't judge me, but  for example, thank you for telling me that, and for your concern, can you show me where that is backed up or spoken of in the scriptures? Our judgment to others, must be pure, sincere, loving, and backed up by scriptures, not your opinion.

Mike says on Disk 2 Track 2 @ 3:10 "I defy the lie of Satan that comes through these so called Christian artists say, go ahead and give in, God understands." In all of my years of listening to this music, I can honestly state, that I have never once heard a Christian artist say, go ahead and give in, God understands. Also, calling them "so called Christian artists, is judgmental of them, and assuming you know their hearts, and where they stand with God. The bible says, you shall know them by their fruits. I can name without research, off the top of my head bands, that some of the fruits of their ministry are thousands of kids that have gotten saved and by the way also filled with the Holy Spirit at their concerts, feed the homeless, build houses for homeless, help unwed mothers, and abused women, as well as donate millions of dollars to missions.

Disk 2 Track 3 @ 1:45 states: "When you begin listening to Christian alternative music, you become dull in your hearing to the Holy Ghost, but you become dull to the sprit of the lord moving around you." This is opinion. I know many people ourselves included that are Holy Spirit filled Christians, Christians on fire for the Lord that listen to this type of music, and are not dull to the Spirit of the Lord moving around us, or dull in our hearing to the Holy Ghost. But i typically leave those types of Judgment up to the Lord, because he can see their hearts.

Disc 2 Track 3@ 2:33 states: "The Christian artists say in their cds, that they are redefining holiness." Please show me even one CD where a Christian artist says that. I seriously have my doubts if even one person has made this statement. However, given the benefit of the doubt, and if one Christian artist did make this statement, again, does that mean they all believe the same way? This is again, opinion.

Disk 2 Track 5 @:030 states: "All this type of music (Christian alternative) does is feed into this rebellious spirit. It's not right, it's not Christian folks." This is again, opinion, and I respect their opinion, but I do not agree with it, because there are no facts to back it up. This is like saying eating tacos, makes you rebellious. It's just as foolish, and baseless.

Disk 2 Track 10:1:44 states: "People that listen to Christian alternative music never get fully delivered. You may get the kids out of the street, but you're not getting the street out of the kids". This is another Opinion. I personally know several kids, and people actually that have gotten saved, and listen to this type of music, and they are off the street, and the so called "street" is out of them. They love the Lord, and serve him, and are awesome AWESOME kids.

Disk 2 Track 11 @5:09 states:  "One of the doctrines that we hear  through this Christian alternative music, is trying to convince you  that somehow you need to become a crack addict in order to minister to a crack addict".  

 This is not only opinion once again but just plain silly. Christian alternative musicians are not saying, you have to be a crack addict to minister to a crack addict. They may not wear suit and ties, and attire that you believe is proper, or they may have hair you don't like etc, but that is their appearance, and doesn't mean they are conforming. It means, its how they like to dress. Let me ask you this question, how does a holy person dress? In a suit with short hair? Does it become less holy when you were blue jeans and a t shirt? When does a mans hair become unholy, after it touches his collar? Do we need to wear papal attire, and collered shirts? Or would it be more holy to wear a long robe, with crosses embroidered on it? What does holiness look like? What does a spiritual person look like? Once again, refer to 1 Corinthians 9 19-23

Track 12 @ 0:20 states: "But what we have seen, is that this type of music, (Christian alternative) doesn't save anybody. It deals with superficial things, but doesn't get to the root problem".

This is correct factually, Christian alternative music doesn't save anybody, Christ saves them when they ask him into their hearts. Christian alternative music is a tool used by God, to minister to people, and to give them something to listen to that is speaking of Godly things, rather than worldly things. At a concert I attended recently, I had the high honor to be the speaker. God gave me an amazing anointed message where in a room of 50 kids, that came to hear the bands, 6 accepted Christ as their personal Lord and Savior that evening.

Disc 3 Track 1 @ 0:1  "Real quick, I just wanted to say, that one thing about this doctrine, is that it puts an emphasis on yourself. Your self, your look, your words. When Jesus made it clear, that it's not your message to preach. It's not your word. We're ambassadors for him. It's no longer that us that lives as Christians, but him living in us. Christian alternative music says, I've got to make them like me before they will listen to me."  

This is of course opinion once again. Well, most of it. Yes we are to be ambassadors for Christ, and it is scriptural to say, it is no longer us that live, but Christ living in us. (Once we become saved) Christian alternative music does not say, I've got to make them like me, before they will listen to me. This statement is an opinion. I've been to numerous Christian concerts where a Holy Sprit filled message is given, and I have seen thousands of kids get saved. I've heard it said that 85 % of kids that get saved at concerts backslide, or their salvation doesn't stick. Think about how foolish that statement is. Who calls these people that got saved at concerts, and polls them to ask if they are still saved? And when and how often are they called? Every year? ring ring ring, "Hello"? "Hey, just wanted to call you to follow up, I see that I've called you for the last 5 years to see if you are still saved, because, you got saved at that Kutless concert 5 years ago!"

Then of course, if that were the case, (which it's not) but lets pretend, if 85% of those that got saved fell away, that means that 15% were still serving the Lord from going to those concerts. Praise be to God!  Please show me the polling data, and also you may want to poll, how many people that get saved in church, are still following the Lord, and how many of them have fallen away.

Disk 3 Track 2 @ 0:52 states:  "What we're dealing with in Christian alternative music is there not happy and satisfied with kids that are loving the lord, there not happy with kids that are coming to the truth, there looking out at the rebel the guy who doesn't want to change who's made up in his mind, I'm going to come to youth group, but I'm not going to participate. And they hang all their expectation on that rebel. Let me tell you something, Jesus preached to the masses, but he taught the faithful." 

 Well, this is once again opinion. I know I sound like a broken record, but please give me some factual basis for these statements. I have gone to several concerts, and I have yet to see them only reaching out to that one so called rebel. The room is typically full of Christians, and also some unsaved that their Christian friends brought with them to hear the gospel message, and also people that don't know the Lord that came on their own. I've never seen an artist focus on that one so called rebel.

Disk 3 Track 3 @ 2:00 states: We've noticed that these groups and artists are forcing, their not just happy singing there style. They want the church to change. They want to change church. And they'll tell you, we are reinventing church. And, this is what we're talking about, doctrines of conformity. 

This is an opinion. I have never in all my years heard a statement from a Christian alternative musician say, they want the church to change, or they are reinventing church. Who said that? Who made that statement? All of them? Let's give the benefit of the doubt here, and say that one person said that. Does that make them all bad, and in what context did that person make the statement?

Disk 3 Track 7 @ 7:20 states "I got news for you, you've got fornication, you've got the drunkenness, you've got the partying, you've got the rebellion, it doesn't matter what you give the kids to listen to if it sounds like the world, there not going to change." 

This makes no sense whatsoever. If you give kids or people, music that sounds like the world, there not going to change? Interesting concept. Wrong, but interesting. What exactly does music in the world sound like? Have you ever heard of "new age music"? This is evil music that kids that are often called "emo" or emotional listen to, that is filled with despair, depression, sing of hurting yourself, suicide etc. Guess what it was patterned after. Christian worship music. Much of it sounds like worship music, except for the lyrics. I love Christian worship and praise music, but I don't listen to new age music. I love Christian Rock, but I don't listen to Van Halen, or AC/DC either.

Disk 3 Track 7 @ 8:01 states: "let me just say something, you ever notice that sometimes that Christian artist will come out with a very good cd. A very wonderful cd. But something happens to the next time they have a cd. But you feel locked in to that group, because you liked the first cd. But on there 2^nd cd there's only one or 2 good songs, and on the third cd comes out and nothing is really good. But, you get it anyway, because, see what I mean?"

 This opinion was very interesting to me. Up to this point, we have been told on these cd's that ALL Christian alternative music is wrong, evil etc. And now in this statement, it is said, that "sometimes a Christian artist will come out with a very good CD. A very wonderful CD"........ Then he goes on to turn this into a conspiracy. "Then on their 2nd CD there are only one or two good songs. Then on the 3rd CD, there is nothing good on it at all, see what I mean?"    No actually I don't see what you mean. This makes no sense. Because you don't like the CD you're now hooked in and are powerless to not purchase it? Are we all mind numb robots with no self control or discernment?

 

 

 

Enough said. The jest of my rebuttal here, is once again, not to slam or make fun or critisize the door on their beliefs, but people need to see that Christian rock music, is not evil, you are not going to hell if you listen to it or play it, and it ministers to millions of people. Twisting scriptures and making it work to satisfy your beliefs, is dangerous ground. Then it becomes easier to make other doctrines fit your belief system as well. If you dont like Christian rock music, dont listen to it. But, don't try to make people believe that it is sinful.

Music that is used to edify the Lord, or sing about the Lord, or reach people for the Lord, can be any style. The type of music, may have an objectional frequency to some, but that does not equate to an objectional morality.  For more of my blogs, go to myspace.com/kevinpool

 o-pin-ion

-noun

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

 

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

 

3) the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.

4. Law. The formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.

 

 

Fact

-noun

1. A piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case"

 

2. a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"

 

3. an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; how much of the story is fact and how much is fiction is hard to tell"

 

4. a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

 

This entry was posted on Saturday, May 31st, 2008 at 6:46 pm and is filed under Rock music. You can follow responses to this entry through the Comments RSS Feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your site.